The “NASA Still Building Cancelled Rocket” Story is Inaccurate
Nasawatch and some papers are making a big deal about money still going to ATK and Orion and this is being reported as “NASA spending $500 million for canceled rocket…” (Orlando Sentinel).
Not exactly.
This sounds a lot like ADA funds last summer that cut off CxP, then money still went to primes, but not NASA centers. This is not money going to revive the Ares 1. Ares 1 is dead and buried. Get over it.
This money is going to keep work going on things that Ares 1 had that may become part of SLS.
Meanwhile, back at centers that were working Ares, the money is NOT flowing. The current CR is not helping things at all. At MSFC specifically, tasks are running out by Jan 1 and many layoff notices have already gone out. There is no official count, but the number is not trivial.
At lot of people have rightfully asked how can this be? If the CR says don’t cancel any programs or start new ones, why lay people off? It’s because the money is there, but NASA is can’t or won’t spend it on tasks that keep people busy.
This is too bad. Assuming that eventually Congress will appropriate something to get NASA busy on SLS besides small planning teams, tasks will need to be filled again, but the people will be gone. It’s also not just the people. The orgs that needed Project money to survive are doing a re-org at the same time and they are losing not just people, but core capability.
Again we should note that Congress has left the door open to keep Primes at least functional, but they don’t seem to notice or care what damage they are doing to NASA.
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An ATK five segment booster, a Pratt and Whitney J-2X and a Boeing Ares I upper stage sure looks like an Ares I to me, regardless of whether it’s all used on an Ares I, and Ares IV or an Ares V, or an SLS for that matter. Constellation still lives. Right headline, wrong rocket.
Many now REFUSE to believe that NASA can bring an STS derived SLS online in six years for $11.5 Billion dollars, with very good reasons, and we sure as hell don’t think it has a chance in hell of succeeding, if they intend to toss away four or five SSMEs and an ET after delivering them to 99% of orbital velocity, and surely not if it includes a wide body upper stage. The fact that this story has now made the headlines does not bode well for HEFT and SLS, trust me.
probably ATK will receive much more money to close the SRB5 and Ares-1 contracts … the big mistake has been at the origin of the project, not in its end
Congress has pretty much directed NASA to build a shuttle derived and Ares I/V derived heavy lift vehicle capable of lifting 118 metric tonnes into low earth orbit. So its not too surprising that NASA is doing pretty much what Congress directed them to do.
The Obama administration would love to just turn the HLV program over to Space X so that Elon can build his greenhouse gas polluting space rocket . But Congress is not going to allow that to happen!
Throwing away rocket engines means that a lot more rocket engines have to be manufactured– which should lower cost. My only hope is that NASA ends up using rocket engines that are also used by private commercial manned spaceflight companies in order to significantly lower government spaceflight expenditures . Someday, rocket engines for the space tourism industry may be manufactured by the hundreds or even the thousands annually which should dramatically lower the cost of rocket engines and spaceflight.
Manufacturing lots of large high tech components in America is good for this country and good for job creation!
Hopefully, the layoffs will be short lived. If Congress acts in March, they can rehire people. In the meantime, there should be some severance pay and unemployment benefits to get people through the next several months.
I’m not diminishing this, but I live in a high-tech area where unemployment is at 12.4 percent. We’ve experienced a great many layoffs and outsourcing. I’ve been through it myself. So I know how people are feeling. But it is survivable.
Thomas;
There is nothing in those news sources that says the Ares 1 Upper Stage (Boeing) is going forward.
It’s done. The layouts were finished at MSFC, put away, and the people that did them laid off and gone. Congress may still have a requirement in effect to work it, but this is impossible. Work has in fact stopped and won’t start up again.
The J-2X and SRBs are options for the RAC studies referenced earlier, but not a sure thing. Call it pork if you want, but the headline is just wrong. Only elements of Ares are still getting money, and those elements are SLS options as well.
There is nothing in those news sources that says the Ares 1 Upper Stage (Boeing) is going forward.
There is no Ares I upper stage. MSFC only designed it. You are saying Boeing isn’t going to receive their legally contracted money to build it, because that would be in violation of several laws as far as I know.
Yes, that is what I am saying, there is nothing to build. The designs were not finished or released partly finished.
Nothing is being built.
Nothing is being built.
At a cost of $514.7 million dollars. That’s pretty much what the article is stating. That doesn’t even include the Ares I avionics which was an additional minimum value of $265,489,783.00, more not less.
Thomas: Space is correct: nothing is being built.
Most of the Boeing people left are folks who were/are being funded via “stimulus” money that was allocated some time back to help bridge the funding gap we had at the time. The money was directed to be used for specific tasks to train and develop folks to be ready to start making hardware at MAF once the tooling was in place. That funding expires in mid Feb. and then those folks will be let go as far as I know . Most of the Key Boeing Mfg folks have all ready been reassigned or moved on. (Im not a Boeing employee but i work with them) As an aside Your postings seem to suggest some one who is more interested in string up things ‘facts be dammed’ , than advancing a logical discussion. i.e. you suggest that the outcome of HEFT is determined by the perceived level of news coverage this article has achieved then you give the Media a lot more credibility, influence than I do. .. Just the facts please.. any way back to the topic: The only work im aware of tied to the Ares 1 is that to document lessons learned, compile test/ design data as it is , in its current state for future applications to avoid duplication ( not a bad idea) so folks like SpaceX orbital etc can use it if they want, and close out some tests of hdw that is useful for follow on SLS type work. as I said , Space has very good handle on whats going or not going on at this point.
Thomas: Space is correct: nothing is being built.
Indeed, Boeing is not longer building anything Constellation related, but the Constellation contracts they were legally awarded are still being paid, roughly three quarters of a billion dollars for NOTHING.
Most of the Key Boeing Mfg folks have all ready been reassigned or moved on.
That’s true, so their profit margin on three quarters of a billion dollars of legally contracted Ares I work will be very good indeed.
Space has very good handle on whats going or not going on at this point.
No, he doesn’t. But I’m sure Boeing is thrilled about not having to perform any more work on their legally awarded Ares I contracts.
It would have been nice to have renegotiated some of those contracts into a rational five meter SSME powered core stage or a rational five meter J-2X powered upper stage, but NASA and your government just screwed the pooch on that possibility for good.